This interview originally aired on "In the Moment" on SDPB Radio.
U.S. Rep. Dusty Johnson held the Level Up youth conference earlier this week. During the conference, high school students posed their political questions to the representative and a media panel.
Jonathan Ellis and SDPB's Lori Walsh joined the conference as part of a media panel, moderated by Johnson.
They dive into what they shared with the students — and what the students shared with them.
Ellis is co-founder of The Dakota Scout.
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The following transcript was auto-generated.
Lori Walsh:
U.S. Representative Dusty Johnson held the Level Up Youth Conference earlier this week. There, intrepid high school students asked the politician and a panel their political questions. Jonathan Ellis and I joined the conference as part of a media panel moderated by the congressman.
We're going to dive into what we shared with the students and what they shared with us, and then we'll get to some of the state's top political headlines.
Jonathan is co-founder of the Dakota Scout, and he's today's Dakota Political Junkie. He's seated across the table from me on this beautiful southeast South Dakota day. It's nice out, right, here?
Jonathan Ellis:
Oh, it's wonderful out. Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
I apologize, I don't know what's happening in the rest of the state. I should be asking everybody. I just know that the sun is shining, and that makes me happy.
Jonathan Ellis:
It's very nice here. The wind is down.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah. It's very nice.
Lori Walsh:
All right. So we were on a panel with Congressman Johnson out at Southeast Technical Institute on Monday, which is asking a lot because he could have asked us anything. Usually, we get to ask the questions. This time, we had to answer them.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah, we answered them. And we took questions from him, and we took questions from the students who were there. So it was a good event.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. I'm going to key things up by sharing a little audio from Congressman Johnson. I asked him after the event what he thought about some of the students' questions.
Dusty Johnson:
There was a lot of engagement in the media session. It seemed to me that they really are a little befuddled about the idea of where to go get information. They know it's important, but they don't know whether they should be checking two sources, or three sources or four sources. I mean, how do they have a proper diet of good information?
And of course, the problem is, there's no clear answers. It's not like you can say, "Here are the two media outlets who always have it right. Do 20 minutes here and 20 minutes there. Take two pills, call me in the morning." I mean, that's not how it works. It is probably the most difficult part of being a good citizen is knowing where to go get information. And I think we heard that from the students today.
Lori Walsh:
All right. On that note, SDPB's Ryan Bozer says it's beautiful but somewhat windy in the west, so you can trust that because it comes from Ryan Bozer in SDPB.
Jonathan Ellis:
I trust it.
Lori Walsh:
Which was one of the points I was trying to make. And that's maybe a little bit of a luxury at the media panel. I was saying, "I sit down with Jonathan Ellis," so when I read one of your stories, I know you, I know your reporting, I know your reputation. And if there's something in there that I'm confused about, I'm going to send you a note and ask you. I know Ryan Bozer there on Morning Edition. If he tells me it's windy, I believe it. What did you note from the students and the sorts of things they were asking?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, I took away positives and negatives. Part of that included a quiz in which the students were given an opportunity to vote on whether they thought a post, a social media post, was fake or real.
And they seemed, by and large, they overwhelmingly were able to spot the differences. And they had good reasons for why they were able to spot what would be considered misinformation. They didn't necessarily trust some rando person. They would look at a post, and if they saw emojis, that would sort of discredit it and the way something was framed. So they seemed to be pretty astute in that.
I kind of think we were wanting a little bit, in terms of TikTok in particular. And I am the father of a high school-aged kid, so I know that they get a lot of their information from TikTok, and they didn't really seem to have filters for where that originates from.
Lori Walsh:
So what I couldn't quite discern, and I wish we had a little more time to ask them, but when I did say, "What kind of information are you getting from TikTok?" because I was trying to distinguish, is it like SDPB does not have a TikTok account but is it? I don't know who does because I'm not on TikTok. "Is it a well-known news organization's TikTok, or is it your friends doing TikTok?" And the answer I got was just, "Everything."
Jonathan Ellis:
It's everything.
Lori Walsh:
Everything. They just kept saying, "Everything."
Jonathan Ellis:
Everything.
Lori Walsh:
Like everything. You get everything on TikTok. So it's not just a cat video, it's news, it's everything. And your point that I think I hear you making is, that they're not necessarily realizing where that originated from.
Jonathan Ellis:
Right. You have to be discriminating in where you're getting your sources.
Lori Walsh:
Do you have a TikTok?
Jonathan Ellis:
I do not.
Lori Walsh:
For Dakota Scout?
Jonathan Ellis:
No, we do not. I'm not saying we should. I mean, I think that TikTok is something to be very wary of in the way that it has been used.
Lori Walsh:
That's been our decision too, here, organizationally, is that it's proceed with caution. However, the point was not lost on me that they were all looking at us like maybe we were old people at that point.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah. Well, they would be correct.
Lori Walsh:
All right. The Washington Post has a great TikTok.
Jonathan Ellis:
Do they?
Lori Walsh:
Yes. Learning that from our producers. So there are organizations who are doing this really well.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yep. I barely have time to even be on Twitter anymore, let alone TikTok. So, I'm not saying that it doesn't have utility or value to news organizations. It probably does. It's a matter of the time you're spending and in reaching that generation, obviously.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. So how will young people demand different kinds of coverage from The Dakota Scout? How do you reach young audiences? What are some of the ways that you think about that, even if you don't have a five-point strategic plan?
Jonathan Ellis:
I'm not sure that we are necessarily.
Lori Walsh:
Okay.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah. I mean, unless are they picking up our print edition? Highly unlikely. I mean, maybe they are. I've seen some kids I guess reading it.
Lori Walsh:
Do you care?
Jonathan Ellis:
I do. Yeah, I do care. And that's something we probably have to try to figure out. Now, TikTok itself seems to be somewhat in peril. Very rarely in Congress do you get a lot of bipartisan support. But on this particular issue, there is bipartisan support of having divesting the Chinese ownership.
And we were asked about that. We were asked specifically, "Should we ban TikTok?" And that's how that issue has been framed by TikTok. Banning TikTok, and as that spread across TikTok a couple of weeks ago, there were a number of users of that who were very distraught that Congress was going to ban it, when in fact, it's a question of making the Chinese-backed firms that own it divesting themselves of that.
Lori Walsh:
All right, interesting stuff.
Let's talk a little bit about what's happening in South Dakota. A headline from the Dakota Scout about Governor Kristi Noem's ongoing relationship with tribes. Some tribes are gathering and saying, "You may not come here." Others have asked the question and said, "No, we're not going to institute a ban." Tell me a little bit about this reporting.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah, it's been ongoing now since January, when she gave her sort of unprecedented joint legislative speech about what the conditions at the southern border. Obviously, I mean, that's an issue that has a lot of political currency with conservatives. And let's make no mistake about it. She's hoping to elevate her profile in the hopes of being Donald Trump's running mate.
So let's be honest. I mean, it was used for political purposes. Let's also be honest that the reaction has also been very political as well. So Standing Rock is the latest tribe to ban her from their lands, joining Cheyenne River and Pine Ridge. And I would say that, just historically, those three tribes have been probably a little more politically active.
Lori Walsh:
Do you think it's equivalent? Because here's my question, it's a political conversation. Inherently, she has been accused by the tribes of using wildly irresponsible language, and they would say that they're responding to this probably in a political way by saying, "The governor can't come here."
Yes, certainly that's a headline here we are talking about it, but I haven't seen in their language the kind of accusations against the governor that the governor was issuing against some of the tribes. Because I want to split the hair a little bit and not just say the whole thing, "Oh, they're fighting again."
Jonathan Ellis:
I think the initial reaction from the Oglala Sioux was an overreaction.
Lori Walsh:
You thought that's your opinion. This is analysis, people.
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, I was at the Capitol. I listened to the speech. In no way was she trying to blame the tribes for cartels. She was not. But some of their members took it that way that she was actually blaming them. And in fact, I would say that some of the language she used was even less forceful than what the tribal chairman had used when he was testifying to Congress about saying there were cartels on the land and they needed more protection, more police support.
So I did not take that speech in the way that some of the tribes did.
However, there's been an escalation since then in which, when she was at a town hall in Winter, I believe it was Winter, and I think she was asked about that in passing. And she said that she thought that there were probably some tribal leaders or council members, or whatever that were benefiting financially. Implying that they're benefiting from an illegal drug trade that the cartels are sponsoring.
That was quite an escalation. Again, I didn't think the initial speech, I kind of walked away from that when I started to hear the criticisms from the tribal members, kind of shaking my head, saying, "I didn't hear that in the speech." And I asked others, but we have had this escalation. And since that escalation, that's when you've had both Cheyenne River and Standing Rock issue their proclamations.
Lori Walsh:
So you deal with this all the time in The Dakota Scout, you run letters to the editor. People say things about really personal issues, highly politically charged issues. Part of your mission is to platform some of those things.
Do you see the constructive use of some of these really heightened charged issues? How do we put them out into the public so that there is some kind of constructive result? Or do you see your job as just like, "Hey, this person says this and this person says this."
Thinking back to talking to those kids again, and they would say, "Hey, how are you making those editorial decisions, Jonathan?" You would say what? How would you respond to the kids if they asked you about some of the editorial decisions that you make as you cover what people are saying in the political atmosphere of South Dakota?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, I would say certainly covering one of our tribal governments in this state and a decision that is pretty high profile, telling them that the governor can't come on their resume. I would just say that's just very newsworthy. And I would say that the events leading up to that have been newsworthy, and the reaction to that. So I guess I have my own beliefs about the reactions and the speech itself, but I just think that all of this has been very newsworthy. And this is something that goes back into history where they have tension over when she first came into office, the riot boosting, or that she sponsored legislation there. There was a lot of, I guess, back and forth with regard to closing of roads during COVID when tribes were issuing lockdown orders. And she said, "You can't close state roads." So there's been a lot of history of animosity.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. What did you hear from those students that they thought the top political issues were when they were playing Kahoot? Which is an online game where they can use their phones and type things in. It shows up on a screen for us to see. Or had you left?
Jonathan Ellis:
I may not have been there.
Lori Walsh:
For that part, I think you left.
So I will tell you what some of the things that came up in the word cloud. They all typed things in, and obviously some of it was jokes. They typed into one of their favorite classmate's name a bunch of times, so that his name showed up really big. And that was funny.
But then they also had education as one of their top concerns. The national debt, climate change and global warming showed up. So I would say if you'd put those two together, you would've seen an even bigger word cloud for how they care about the environment.
Are we in the media covering the stories that young people care about enough because education was top of the list?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, I mean, that's very broad, right?
Lori Walsh:
Kahoot is not known for its specificity.
Jonathan Ellis:
My first exposure to Kahoot.
Yeah. Is it education?
Lori Walsh:
Well, student debt is that, yeah.
Jonathan Ellis:
College has gotten very expensive. You do have to take on a lot of debt now. And the question, I mean, do you go to college and get a degree that comes? So I guess without, I'm sure they're probably not worried about what the school board is talking about, right? I mean, I don't know.
Lori Walsh:
Well, of course, they're high school students. Judging from the turnout at the Sioux Falls school board election, they're not racing to the polls. But those kids would've been too young to race to the polls. So that's not fair.
Jonathan Ellis:
That's true. Yeah. Education. I mean, I feel like we cover education in the issues around it. I don't know. But again, without knowing specifically what their interests are, and, of course, you've seen the Biden administration deal again with education in terms of that issue.
Lori Walsh:
We're going to see that all the way to election day.
Jonathan Ellis:
I wonder why. I wonder why.
Lori Walsh:
You're going to be talking about that to election day. Before I let you go, any other stories from the Scout that you want to lift up and elevate today that's happening in the state that you think people young and old should be paying attention to? What are you watching?
Jonathan Ellis:
This is a very local story, but the Lincoln County Commission is moving forward with a tax increment financing district to pay for its portion of the 85th Street Interchange. And that's a big issue for Sioux Falls. It's going to be a massive development that's coming.
And then we have a follow-up to a dairy story we did a couple of weeks ago that South Dakota really has in the last decade, emerged as quite a power in the dairy industry.
Lori Walsh:
Interesting. And that's a huge international trade. I got to dig into my mental files about Canada and dairy and NAFTA and remind myself of how all that intersects, and we'll talk about it again.
Jonathan Ellis with The Dakota Scout. You can find those free copies of the newspaper around the state or the city. Where do you distribute?
Jonathan Ellis:
We're in Pierre. We're in Aberdeen. We're all around the Sioux Falls area, Madison, Cheyenne School.
Lori Walsh:
And then online, of course.
Jonathan Ellis:
Online is where it's at.
Lori Walsh:
That's where it's at?
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
We'll see you next time.
Jonathan Ellis:
Thank you.
