This interview originally aired on In the Moment on SDPB Radio.
Tom Dempster is our Dakota Political Junkie this Wednesday. He brings his experience as a former state senator to preview Veto Day and discuss a controversial bill that Gov. Kristi Noem has already vetoed.
Take a listen to get a peek behind the legislative curtain and why South Dakota is one of the most prolific states for overriding vetoes.
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Jackie Hendry:
You're listening to In the Moment on South Dakota Public Broadcasting. I'm Jackie Hendry, in today for Lori Walsh. It is my distinct pleasure to welcome Tom Dempster back to the mic. He's former South Dakota State Senator and a regular political junkie, and he joins me now in SDPB'S Kirby Family Studio in Sioux Falls to talk veto day, which is coming up fast on Monday. Tom Dempster, welcome. It's nice to see you.
Tom Dempster:
Well, I'm so happy to hear you use the words, not only pleasure, but distinct pleasure.
Jackie Hendry:
I want to set things off on the right foot.
Tom Dempster:
Hey Jackie, what a distinct pleasure to be here. But I also heard the weather report. I don't think it is a distinct pleasure to be suffering some of this weather that apparently we're going to be having this spring, and I do hold you responsible for-
Jackie Hendry:
Me personally?
Tom Dempster:
... for any nasty weather. Well, I mean, you broadcast it. Doesn't that make you responsible? Come on.
Jackie Hendry:
Sure. Yeah. Well, I guess we know where this is going today.
Tom Dempster:
Indeed, we do.
Jackie Hendry:
And it's funny you say that, because I'm imagining in your legislative days what a treat the weather probably was in the winter times in the state capitol and having to find your meals and deals, as they say. And now we get to reminisce.
Tom Dempster:
Well, I don't know about reminiscing necessarily, but thank you for saying that as well, because I mean, one of the things, 70 people in the house and 35 people in the Senate and all the support staff and the LRC and all the lobbyists and everybody, one of the things that you really have to factor in serving in the legislature during the months of January and February and part of March and now veto day this next Monday, is having to endure, and traveling sometimes 250 miles in this nasty, really brutal weather. And one of the things that I always worry about is accidents and fatalities, having to do that each and every weekend. And it's something that, I mean, it's something that people don't necessarily realize.
I mean, when you go to Pierre, definitely there's a reason for there being, it's a beautiful rotunda, but there's a reason for there being a beautiful rotunda, is you're not in a cage, but you definitely are in bootcamp. You've got 200 and probably 250 to 300 people that spend two, two and a half months there. And that's, in that boot camp, that's about the only reality that you ever see. But having to see that reality means that yes, indeed, you have to drive these South Dakota roads just about every weekend. And we should be thankful that we have people who are dedicated and foolish enough to do that.
Jackie Hendry:
Yeah, I had a nasty fall on some ice in Pierre this year, and I thought, yeah, I don't think law making is in my future based on that particular experience, but I do enjoy talking about it. I'm on the right end of it. So to that end.
Tom Dempster:
And Jackie, I cannot tell you how many times I drove that distance, as all legislators do, with my nose to the windshield. Or I don't know. You remember reading Kathleen Norris in Dakota and her description on how you drive in South Dakota in winter. You open the driver's door and you make certain that you can see the median strip. And if you can do that, then you can continue to drive.
Jackie Hendry:
A more poetic listener may tell me that there's a metaphor here to be found between South Dakota winter weather and forging a path ahead for veto day.
Tom Dempster:
I like it. I like it. Go for it. Yeah, sure.
Jackie Hendry:
We'll swing the steering wheel in that direction.
Tom Dempster:
I knew there was going to be a segue coming up here pretty soon.
Jackie Hendry:
What are you watching? Because, of course, I'm watching this unified commercial code veto. The governor vetoed this update, and when I came into the office the day following that, people were talking about the UCC veto, and my first thought was, what's what's wrong with the United Church of Christ? So that goes to show how much foundational knowledge I had on that procedure. Share a bit of your insight on that. You've been involved in the legislature now, and what do we need to understand about this?
Tom Dempster:
Well, one of the things that one must understand about being a legislator is you never know what's going to get thrown at you, whether it's going to be an earthquake or a tornado, or whether it's going to be the UCC code. A legislator would probably be better able to construct a nuclear power plant by hand then he or she would be able to have a full understanding of the UCC code.
We in South Dakota always advertise ourselves and always claim ourselves to be open for business. And if roads and highways are an important part of our transportation system where it's important to keep them open for business, that's what the UCC code is to commerce and to finance and to trade. Really means that in order to have a state that is sophisticated and to say that we are open for business, you have to endorse this very long 3, 4, 5 year process, where some five or 600 different attorneys and legislators and judges and LRC staffers combine together to write to these rules of the road for finance and for regulation to come together. Not everybody agrees with everybody, but through the process you fight and you come to a resolution and present the UCC code.
To veto, in my opinion, to veto the UCC code is an important statement that says, well, maybe we're not really open for business. It's fundamental and it's really important, very difficult to understand, but at the same time, that's your responsibility as a legislator to understand those things, to work with people that can explain them to you so that fundamentally you have the capacity of being responsible for the vote that you must cast. It's always a yes. It's always a no. There's always a maybe, or there's never a maybe. You have to take that responsibility yourself to understand what you're voting on and trust those people that you trust and stay away from those people that you don't trust.
Jackie Hendry:
At this stage in the game, for this particular veto, it's a little tricky to predict how things will shake out on veto day, because that's the lawmakers opportunity to either override the governor's veto with a two thirds majority or not, and the veto stands. From your experience in the legislature, give us the peek behind the curtain, as best you can. Certainly, obviously not for this specific scenario.
Tom Dempster:
Yeah, for sure.
Jackie Hendry:
Generally speaking, what's happening at this stage?
Tom Dempster:
Let me give you the peek in front of the curtain.
Jackie Hendry:
There we go.
Tom Dempster:
South Dakota has one of the best histories for vetoing bills. In the past 20 years, if you were a legislator and wanted to override a veto, South Dakota would be the 13th best state in the country to do so. That's the good news.
Jackie Hendry:
Okay.
Tom Dempster:
Do you want to hear the bad news relative to overriding the veto?
Jackie Hendry:
I'm prepared, yes.
Tom Dempster:
Out of 648 bills, I think that's the number that have been vetoed in the past 20 years in South Dakota, out of 643, only six override vetoes have succeeded. That's a success ratio of 1.3%, because we have some 20 or 25 other states that over the past 20 years have never overridden a veto. So that's the kind of statistics or that's the kind of data that our legislators are faced with overriding this veto.
That notwithstanding, if there was a bill that should be vetoed, I would argue that it would be this bill. If there's a bill that could be vetoed, I would argue it would be this bill, because both bills passed. The bill passed the house with a two-thirds majority, with the required amount that you need to pass a veto, and it passed the Senate with a two-thirds majority. So you tell me, Jackie.
Jackie Hendry:
Oh, I'm not the one.
Tom Dempster:
You do your calculation and you throw your dice and you tell me what the results of this is going to be.
Jackie Hendry:
Oh boy. Well, I'll see you on Monday, and we'll... That's really interesting. And I had never put that together. It's just a day that comes and goes, and I haven't calculated the batting average of veto overrides and sustaining.
Tom Dempster:
Jackie, I was actually pretty surprised to see how difficult it was, because we do pay, we pay a lot of attention to veto day. And for legislators, I mean, who've spent all of their lives, by that, I mean all of their lives in the past two to two and a half months in bootcamp. Now you've come back from bootcamp and you've realized there actually is life outside of Pierre, and you kind of like that life. And then all of a sudden, so about 25% of me was a little bit resentful that I had to go back to Pierre. The other 50% of me was, hey, it's really fun to see my peers and my friends and my enemies, and I get to work with these guys again. And then 25% of me was steeled to the duty of veto day.
It's quite a special day, but I have to tell you, one of the things that happens when the vetoes have done is sine die, and that's when the legislature is formally adjourned. Exactly right. I sat at that formal adjournment, heard the votes being cast, because of course the Senate, it's a voice vote. It was almost like a bell was tolling in the distance. Work is done, duty is done, huge amounts of satisfaction. Time to go home.
Jackie Hendry:
Almost like the school bell at the beginning of summer vacation.
Tom Dempster:
No, I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't call it a school bell. I'd call it a church bell.
Jackie Hendry:
In our last just couple minutes together, another thing that I am waiting for is the formal announcement of those summer study topics.
Tom Dempster:
Oh, sure.
Jackie Hendry:
I'm sensing a strong hunger for long-term care summer study, and potentially a hunger for a childcare study. If you were a betting man, does that sound about right? How do those decisions get made or are you anticipating any surprises this year?
Tom Dempster:
Well, summer studies can be one of two things. It can be a way to dismiss an issue. We didn't want to deal with it this legislative session, and we don't ever really want to deal with it, so let's do a summer study. But I'm more of a true believer in that and whatever the summer studies would be, it would certainly be issues of relevance and importance.
But I have to tell you this, the reason that I would take a summer study seriously is anyone who followed this year's legislative session, has to take a great deal of satisfaction in the success of the legislative session and their process and their procedure. I had a lobbyist who follows the legislature very closely and has seen some of the sessions that we've had in previous years, and be profoundly disappointed in how our democracy in South Dakota acts, if you will. I think you'll like this, Jackie. I had this legislator tell me, and he's one who's not cynical. He's one who still believes in our capacity to govern. He was overlooking the Senate floor, and one of the particular debates that he heard, he says, "I was just so joyous, I wept." That's the successful legislative session we've had this year.
Jackie Hendry:
Wow.
Tom Dempster:
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
Jackie Hendry:
Wow. It has been my distinct pleasure to chat with former Senator Tom Dempster today for our political junkies segment. Tom, I look forward to our next chat.
Tom Dempster:
As do I.
Jackie Hendry:
Thank you for being here.
Tom Dempster:
I'm delighted to be here.
