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Craig Mattick:
Welcome to another edition of In Play. I'm Craig Mattick. Well, today's guest retired just a couple of years ago as the winningest girls basketball coach in South Dakota, 37 years, 629 wins, a couple of state girls championships. Even early on, she became one of the first women to coach a high school boy's basketball team. And after retiring from coaching, she moved into administration and is now the activities director at Aberdeen Central. She was inducted into the South Dakota Sports Hall of Fame in 2023. Joining us, not only a great coach, but she wasn't too bad as a player at McLaughlin and at the University of Mary, it's Dawn Seiler. And Dawn, welcome to In Play.
Dawn Seiler:
Thanks much, Craig. Appreciate it.
Craig Mattick:
It's been a couple years since you retired as the Aberdeen Central girl's basketball coach, but is it still strange for you to watch the game from the sideline?
Dawn Seiler:
It is because you're always going to have that passion for basketball, specifically girl's basketball because it was a part of my life for so long. But the one thing that you learn when you work in a high school, things change very quickly. I mean, your kids graduate and there's a new group that comes in and so that turnover happens quickly and you lose some of those connections that you had with some of the athletes in the program. And so it does change quickly and I'm watching a whole different group of players and I'm still seeing some of the things that we did when I was coaching because some of those assistant coaches are still in the program, so it's always kind of fun to see how they tweaked those things to work for their team.
Craig Mattick:
Back in the '70s, you played high school and college basketball, but when did the coaching itch begin?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, I loved the game. I loved playing the game as a high school athlete and as a college athlete. And so for me, at that stage of my life, it was all about the game. Once I graduated from college and I had a teaching degree and I was hired in McIntosh and I was the head girl's basketball coach right out of college and I was also the assistant boy's basketball coach, but what evolved with me is you have that love for the game, but you soon realize that you're developing relationships with young people and you remember those things.
So when I think about my career way back and I started in 1983 was my first coaching job, I think of those people. I don't remember the wins and losses. I remember some of the fun times we had and those people, who they were and what they stood for. I mean, it was a very, very good time in my life with that first group that we had in McIntosh. And so through the years, it wasn't about the wins and losses, but it was about those relationships and all of those experiences that we were sharing together.
Craig Mattick:
You grew up in McLaughlin, which is just north and west of Mobridge, almost a stone's throw away from the North Dakota border. What was living in small town McLaughlin for you?
Dawn Seiler:
I think it was like living in any small town in South Dakota. We were all farm kids, we were a close-knit community. It's fun to be in those small towns because basketball was the only game in town at that time and everybody got out and supported you. So it was a real community feeling. And so I think that's what I see when I go to small towns and I watch games and it's such a vital part of their school and their community. It's a very, very important thing to people. They have a passion for it and so that's a lot of fun to see.
Craig Mattick:
Well, they were the McLaughlin Midgets. The mascot was changed just four years ago to the Mustangs. I know a couple of people in McLaughlin and I know it's kind of hard for them to get rid of that Midgets nickname, but you know what, McLaughlin, what a fun town to grow up in. Was there encouragement from your family to get involved with sports?
Dawn Seiler:
Yeah, when I was a freshman in high school, that was the first year of girl's basketball. So that's in 1974. So that is the very first time we're playing organized ball. And it was awful. At that time, there were jump balls in the game. That's before we had the alternating possession and it seemed like there was 100 jump balls every game. It was very bad basketball, but the community still supported it and our families always supported us. Whatever you were going to choose to do in life, the one thing that you needed to do is make sure you worked at it.
And I think that was the philosophy that the entire town had is that everybody needed to do their best at whatever they were going to want to do in their life. And that was certainly the case with my family. I come from a background, a farm background with very hardworking people, strong work ethic, and very supportive of everybody around them. So I think growing up in a small town, it has a lot of really unique characteristics that many people in South Dakota share and they know what I'm talking about when I say that. And so always supportive of your teams, always supportive of the school, and always supportive of what you wanted to do once you left that household.
Craig Mattick:
Where was the basketball hoop on the farm?
Dawn Seiler:
Oh, we had a couple.
Craig Mattick:
Had a couple.
Dawn Seiler:
We had one, of course, right behind the house and the old... In the yard, where you know how it is, you have the gravel and the chunks of grass and you learn to handle the ball. And then we were lucky because we also had one indoors and so when it was cold we would go inside and we would play in there. But we were lucky and we needed to be doing something .and during that time, there weren't video games and a lot of TV and all that kind of stuff. We were very active kids.
Craig Mattick:
Well, in the mid to late '70s while you were in high school, class B, it was Jefferson, Clear Lake, Woolsey, they were the top teams back then. Did you get a chance to play any of those teams?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, we did Jefferson because we played Jefferson in the state tournament in 1978 and we met them in the semifinals round, and I remember having the lead, seven point lead with three minutes ago and we blew that lead. I haven't quite let go of that yet, but that was the Fred Tippett's era then. So yeah, I definitely remember that.
Craig Mattick:
Well, one game you did score a state record of 47 points in the game. When did you do that?
Dawn Seiler:
Oh boy, I don't know. I never really paid much attention to that. I'm going to say it was probably in Cheyenne Eagle Butte on the road and just was lucky enough to catch the ball a lot under the basket. I didn't have a lot of scoring range, but I had a lot of good teammates who were willing to pass the ball.
Craig Mattick:
Who was your coach at McLaughlin?
Dawn Seiler:
Jim Calhoun. He was in McLaughlin. He started the girls program. He also coached the boys because the girls were in the fall, boys are in the winter, so he could do both. Once he left McLaughlin, he went down to White River and had a lot of success. So he did have a lot of success with both genders in McLaughlin and in White River.
Craig Mattick:
So after you graduate high school, it's off to the University of Mary in North Dakota, which isn't that far from McLaughlin. Why Mary?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, I only visited two schools and now one was Northern State and one was Mary. And I visited Northern first and Mary second and you hear people say you visit a place and you have a feel for it. And that was the case with me. I went in, visit with the coach and you see the campus and it seemed like a good fit. And so I liked the town of Bismarck a lot. Bismarck's a nice town, and so it wasn't that far from home, but like I always tell kids, you can make it as far as you want to make it. It doesn't have to be a long ways away. So I ended up at Mary for four years, got my degree there, played basketball all four years and it was a good experience for me.
Craig Mattick:
Yeah, 1,800 points. Almost 1,800 points, over 700 rebounds. What kind of offense did you guys run at Mary?
Dawn Seiler:
We had a lot of good passers. I just stood under the basket.
Craig Mattick:
Never was called for three seconds either, right?
Dawn Seiler:
No, we just had good personnel and that was really those developing years of women's basketball. And so I was fortunate to be a part of some really good teams that had really good battles in our conference and Northern State was one of our rivals and we had really good games with Northern State, so of course I knew a lot of those people who were playing for Northern. So it was a good experience. College athletics was a very good experience. I think college athletics right now is a little bit different than college athletics back then, the expectations of the athletes on the collegiate level. They put a lot of time into their game and they're high expectations and they're expected to be good students. So it was the very beginning and it was, like I said earlier about growing up in small town South Dakota, it was a good time to be a collegiate basketball player.
Craig Mattick:
So it's after college, it's about 1983, McIntosh, your first job, you wanted to become a coach and you became a coach. But I think you have had to have had an idea of what kind of a coach you wanted to be. Did you know early on what kind of a coach you wanted to be?
Dawn Seiler:
That's a loaded question. You got to coach your personality. I don't think that you cannot coach your personality. So when I'm watching coaches on TV and when I... I was a basketball junkie, I wanted to watch college basketball on TV and you saw all those great coaches from Bobby Knight to Mike Krzyzewski and all those people. And the one thing that I always took away when I watched somebody else is how much passion they had for the game. And I had a lot of passion for the game and sometimes a little too much passion maybe, but I would say that I was probably an intense coach, kind of fiery, but I wanted my athletes to really experience that too. I wanted them to have that same passion that I had for the game, I wanted them to share. I think it's important for kids to have a passion for something, whether it's basketball or whatever they choose to do.
It doesn't matter. If you put your heart and soul into it, you're really going to have a good experience. Not everything works out the way you want it to work out, but still, there's value in working extremely hard for something. And I think that my teams did work extremely hard. I tried to put as much effort into coaching as I could possibly do. I wanted to work hard for my kids and I think that's one thing that we could always take away after a season is that we were hardworking people, we did the best that we could every time that we were out there playing. And so that was kind of my coaching style and I think that was it from the beginning. I don't think that's something that I had to work at, that was just a part of my personality. And so of course you evolve as you get older and if you change a little bit, you get a little smarter about things. So I just think I was extremely passionate and maybe a little bit too intense sometimes.
Craig Mattick:
At McIntosh, you coached the girls team in the fall and then in the winter, you were an assistant boys coach. What was that experience like?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, it was a lot of fun. I got to work with Clay Anderson was the head coach. And Clay Anderson moved from McIntosh to Belle Fourche, became the AD down there. But Clay Anderson was a very good basketball coach and so I learned a lot from him. The head coach role is very different from the assistant coach role. As an assistant coach, you're throwing out ideas, you're trying to help that head coach, but I had a lot of really positive takeaways from that. Working with the boys was a little bit different than working with the girls, but my philosophy was you always treated everybody like an athlete.
You always treated everybody like an individual and you wanted to create the best team that you could possibly create. So I don't think my philosophy was really different in working with the boys. It's just that you had to... I don't know how I want to say it. It was just at a different level. It was a faster paced game. And I think maybe it taught me to think a little quicker and think ahead a little faster than I maybe had to do in the early years in the girls game.
Craig Mattick:
1986, McIntosh, the girls make it to the state tournament and they make it to the championship game. And unfortunately, it's against Armor as it was the fourth of five titles in a row for Armor. What was the town of McIntosh like back at that point in time?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, when I first got there in '83, we were around that 500 mark and we had a young group of kids and they kind of came through the ranks. And once they were juniors, we were playing some pretty good basketball. So that junior year in '86, we've got a good balance of... We got a good mix of guard play and post play. Everybody knew how strong Armor was and all of their personnel that played for a number of years. The town of McIntosh was elated that we were in the state tournament. I mean, everybody traveled to all the away games. It was a great tournament atmosphere. Being in that state championship game, I don't know how many people remember this, but that was the debacle over the McIntosh team uniforms. At that time, uniforms were kept at the facility you played in. It was actually played in the Civic Arena in Aberdeen. So after the game you get done playing, they would launder your uniforms. And when you played the next day, they'd be out in your locker room, kids would get dressed, you'd come out and play.
Well, for that last game, we come into the Civic Arena, go into the locker room and our uniforms aren't there. So I start hunting for the uniforms, can't find them. At that time, Ruth Ren's in charge of the tournament, so I'm trying to find these uniforms, they're nowhere to be found. The uniforms were taken out of the building I found later and never brought back, but we ended up wearing White River's uniforms that they wore in the third place game. We were slated to wear the dark uniforms, our dark uniforms were gone. So we actually played the state championship game in White River's uniform that they had just taken off from the third place game. So we tried getting them to switch colors of uniforms, but nobody was having that. So it was a lot of chaos and again, that's one of those things that you never forget as a coach, that that's a state tournament, your state championship and you're in McIntosh High School and you're in White River's uniform.
Craig Mattick:
I had never heard that story. That is crazy. And I can imagine as a coach, it is something that totally takes you away from the planning of the game and going up against Armor who had already won three titles in a row.
Dawn Seiler:
Yeah. And quite honestly, we were never into the game after that. It disrupts your whole routine, the whole locker room routine. And then the warmup routine, we were putting on their uniforms. So I mean, it was very, very unusual and something that we just had to go through and we didn't handle it especially well, but they did play in that state championship and those were fun teams. Like I said, I didn't worry so much about the wins and I think about that group of kids and how special they were. That's the important takeaway from that. And you're still in touch with those people today. I mean, that meant something to them, being a part of that group. It still means something to them today and so that's a fun part of high school athletics.
Craig Mattick:
I know it's traditional that after a state tournament game is done, whether it's the championship or third or fifth, they take a team picture right after the game. Is there a team picture of McIntosh wearing the White River uniforms?
Dawn Seiler:
I do not believe we took team pictures, nope. Nope, I don't think that happened.
Craig Mattick:
When did the job at Aberdeen Central come up?
Dawn Seiler:
We moved to Aberdeen in '98, so I was in McIntosh for 15 years. We were just looking for a change and so the position in Aberdeen opened up and I said to my husband, Jeff, "You think I should apply?" And he said, "Go ahead, you're not going to get it anyway." So I was like, "All right. Well, that's a little bit of a challenge." So I threw my name in the hat and got called for an interview. Of course Gene Brownell was the athletic director at that time. It was his first year. So did the interview and barely got home and he called and offered the job. So we were looking for a change and we got one. Moving from McIntosh to Aberdeen was a big change in school size, and so it was a good change as well. I got to play basketball, coach basketball at a whole different level and it was good.
Craig Mattick:
So you went to the state tournament some 26 times in your career. I think Aberdeen was about 18 or 19 times, but I know beginning in 2003 you went to the state tournament 11 years in a row and in '03, you made it to the championship game for the first time. Aberdeen central play is Mitchell. What do you remember from that game?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, I remember the Hoffmans.
Craig Mattick:
Yeah, the Hoffman twins.
Dawn Seiler:
They were just outstanding. I mean, they had a lot of good players with them and we didn't play very well there. We were in Watertown. We just didn't play very well. We played well up to that point, but in the championship game we just didn't play well. And we were young, we didn't have a very experienced team and so we did return to the state championship the following year. And so we made it in that championship game, we just couldn't quite close the deal. But again, good kids played as hard as they could, played the right way, we felt like, gave ourselves a chance to be competitive in basketball and just couldn't quite finish with a state championship.
Craig Mattick:
Yeah, a year later, you have to play Brookings in the championship. You're trying to... At least you get back to the championship game, but oh, a one point loss. What was key late in that game?
Dawn Seiler:
I mean, when I think about that game, I think about the atmosphere of that game. That was in the Ulman Center in Sioux Falls and the crowd was right on you. And there was two upsets because Brookings had upset Roosevelt and we had upset Mitchell to get to the state championship. It was one of those seasons where everybody was saying it's a Roosevelt-Mitchell championship and both of them go under in the semi-finals. And so we played Brookings in the championship and it was a back and forth game. It was a tight game. Brookings had excellent personnel. They were well-coached by Lynn Frederick at that time, and so it was a very competitive game. We go down late in the game and we just couldn't get over the hump. Like I said before, we played well enough to be there, to get there. We played well enough to be in that game, but just couldn't finish the way we needed to finish. And so Brookings had good personnel, though. They were definitely a bunch of kids who deserved a state championship as well.
Craig Mattick:
Dawn, you had so many good Aberdeen Central teams, but you always had to get through the Roosevelts, the Mitchells, the Brookings. It was just quite the run they were on. But here we go, it's 2016, 2018 and for the first time you get a state championship, Aberdeen Central state champs, those two years. What made those two championship teams special?
Dawn Seiler:
I think you have to talk about personnel. We had some great athletes on those teams in '16 and '18. It's hard to talk about Aberdeen basketball without talking about kids like the Kuslers, the Berkharts, the Babcocks, Gardeners, Malchows, Bergens. I mean, those names are synonymous with Aberdeen basketball and we had kids who were just really committed to the team, committed to one another, set a goal to get to a state championship. But not only get there, but to win a state championship. We had all the pieces and we had the leadership and the drive to go with those pieces of basketball and that's extremely important.
I mean, the physical side of basketball is one thing, but you've got to have that mental makeup as well. And this group did. When I think about that group, they were competitors. That's the number one thing. They would compete at whatever they were doing. It didn't matter if it was basketball, it didn't matter if it was in the classroom. They were a bunch of competitors. And so as a coach, you always feel very fortunate to get a group of kids like that because they don't come along all the time. A lot of times we were lucky to get one or two of those kids on our team, but I bunch of those kids. And so I think personnel made all the difference in the world because they were set to win state championship. That was what they wanted to do.
Craig Mattick:
You got to coach your daughter, Brooke, on the basketball team. It can be a special time and it can be a challenging time. What was it like having your daughter on the team?
Dawn Seiler:
Oh, it was some of both of those. I'm sure she'll probably could tell you more stories than I would tell you. It was great. It was great having her on the team. She was a good player, she was a solid player, and she was a very smart player. That's the one thing, she always could think the game. She was very good at recognizing things that other teams were trying to do or trying to take away. She was very good at making adjustments and she was a good communicator with me on those things, so I always appreciated that. Of course, she went into coaching and so that was something that served her well when she was coaching in Parkston. She's not coaching this year, she started a family and so she had to step away. She wanted to step away from coaching. But always just a very smart kid, smart player. And so I really enjoyed having those basketball conversations with her and I can still have those conversations with her today. She's very smart about the game.
Craig Mattick:
Did she coach like her mom?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, there's some people who would say that, yeah. I don't know, I watched her pace the sidelines a little bit, maybe that was me to some degree. But yeah, she definitely had a lot of passion. The one thing that she talked about all the time too is she really loved working with her kids. She really likes the community of Parkston and she really thinks a lot of her kids.
Craig Mattick:
I have a feeling she'll be back. Starting a family, good for her, but I have a feeling she will be back someday, I think. She just might.
Dawn Seiler:
Could be. That would not surprise me either, Craig.
Craig Mattick:
Dawn, you plan to retire in 2019, but you got talked out of it. What was that conversation like with you and Athletic Director Gene Brownell?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, I think most educators are familiar with that clause in your contract that says it's your job until they find a suitable replacement. That clause kind of hung me up there a little bit. Gene of course always wanted the best for what we were doing with Aberdeen Central Athletics and we're getting applicants. And it's not really fair to those applicants because you don't have the experience that I obviously had because I had been coaching a lot of years and so he asked me to come back and I think the world of Gene and so I agreed to do so. And it was good for me too because, I mean, I got to coach basketball. That's a pretty good gig when you think about it.
Craig Mattick:
The great Northern State men's basketball coach, Don Meyer, always had some pretty good things to say about you, maybe a little ribbing at times. He once said you were the only person he knew who loved to watch paint dry, which meant that you taught patience as well as any coach in the nation. What was your relationship like with Coach Meyer up there in Aberdeen?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, early on when he came to town, he did clinics and things like that and I actually took a class from him. He was so interesting to listen to him talk and to hear him talk about those experiences he had. And he was so good at painting a picture and telling a story and making it relatable to wherever you were at, whatever team you had, whatever stage of the game, whatever. He made everything so relevant and everything made sense when you listened to him. I learned a ton from him, tremendous respect for the man, respect for his family. He was so good for the community of Aberdeen.
But when I was coaching, some of my teams maybe weren't quite as talented as others, and so we needed to be patient with the ball. We needed to be selective with our shots. I've always told him, "I don't get to recruit my players, Coach. I got to take who we have." And so I very much enjoyed... I was fortunate and Aberdeen was fortunate to have him in our community because we still have some of those things. He passed on a legacy and he was all about legacy and he definitely left a legacy. And so you can't say enough good.
Craig Mattick:
Dawn, you've had a number of former players who have become coaches, basketball and even some volleyball coaches. So what's it like today watching those former players now handle the challenges that you did?
Dawn Seiler:
It's fun to watch them. I watch and I think, "Boy, they're so much better than I ever was at that stage." I appreciate how hard they work at it and I'd like to think that maybe they saw how hard I worked at it. Maybe that had a little carry over. I don't know. But I have a lot of respect for anybody who goes into the game because it's very challenging and it's becoming more challenging. And so just the fact that they want to be in that role, they're willing to put their self in that position. Because you know, people can be fairly critical of coaches and it's always about sticking to what you believe in and working with the team strengths and trying to make people on your team better. And so it's a lot of fun to watch those former athletes. And like I said, I just feel like they're miles ahead of where I was in those stages that are in right now.
Craig Mattick:
One particular player I want to talk about is Brianna Kusler. Great player for you, won a basketball championship at Aberdeen. She's now in her third or fourth year as the boy's basketball coach at Pierre. Knowing that you coached boys back at McIntosh, did Brianna ever talk to you about coaching the boys and whether she should try to apply for that job?
Dawn Seiler:
No. If you know Brianna Kusler, she has no fear. It wasn't going to matter if it was going to be a boy's job or a girl's job. She is not afraid of tackling any challenge at all, and that's how she played. There was no challenge too big for her. She always loved the challenges of the game and so not surprised at all that she landed a boy's basketball job, wasn't going to matter to her. She was going to treat them like athletes, whether it was a boys team or a girls team. So her personality is she's a go-getter. Again, she's going to work extremely hard. She's going to be successful at whatever she does. So I think Pierre basketball's lucky to have her. She's doing a phenomenal job with those athletes and she'll continue to do so.
Craig Mattick:
You retired from coaching at Aberdeen in 2021 and you retired to take over for Gene Brownell as Athletic Director. Gene is one of the all-time greats. I like Gene a lot, does a great job, did a great job as activities or Athletic Director. I think it's one of the toughest jobs out there when it comes to high school jobs. You're watching out for all the students, whether it's fine arts or sports. Did you know what you were getting into when you said, "Yeah, I'll take over for Gene Brownell."?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, I worked pretty closely with Gene. That's the one thing about Gene is he was very giving of his time and he always had an open door. And so I spent a lot of time talking with him because he had a lot of knowledge, a lot of philosophy to share. And every time you talked to him, you were going to learn something. So I tried to spend as much time as I could just visiting with him and picking his brain. I knew it was a very challenging job and I knew that he had to work extremely hard and I was looking for a different challenge as well. And so I moved from being the assistant principal and basketball coach to the AD job, knowing it would be completely different, as it was. And it's been a good change.
I can't think of a better thing than watching high school athletes compete. Like, I'm at a Bell game tonight and I'll be at a wrestling tournament on Saturday. So there's always something going on and you get to be a part of it. And long before I was an Athletic Director, I just wanted to go watch kids play. I wanted to go watch kids compete because for me, that's a lot of fun. I think you learn a lot about people. It's fun to watch teams grow and develop. It's fun to watch coaches coach. So I have a pretty good seat in Golden Eagle Arena and I get to watch a lot of good athletics.
Craig Mattick:
Aberdeen is such a great sports town, great people in Aberdeen, great facility makes that job a little bit easier too, Dawn, no doubt about it. 2023, you're inducted into the South Dakota Sports Hall of Fame. What does that mean to you?
Dawn Seiler:
Well, it's a tremendous honor because of all the people who are in that Hall of Fame. When they call and tell you this, you're kind of in disbelief because you don't feel like you belong there. But it's a huge honor and South Dakota does a great job putting individuals, recognizing individuals, and I'm very appreciative of that. I'm very appreciative of all the things that so many people have looked out for me and allowed me to do things do. So it's a huge honor and I don't know what else you can say about that.
Craig Mattick:
Just a couple more for you, Dawn. Just recently, Jim Bridge of Hanson became the all-time winningest girl's basketball coach, passing your wins mark of 629 in 37 years of coaching. And by the way, Jim is in his 37th year of coaching girl's basketball this year, and Jim's mark, his is going to get challenged in the next five years or so. And it's the old adage, Dawn, records were made to be broken. But what goes through your mind knowing that someone has passed 629 wins?
Dawn Seiler:
I'm happy for him. I know how hard Jim works and it's very deserving. And I said, I think Jim would probably agree with this, I'm putting words in his mouth here. Again, it's not about the wins and the losses, it's about all those things that went into that. I'm sure when he looks back on his career, when he steps away, he's going to not think about those things. He's going to think about those relationships, those teams and all the fun that he had along the way. So it's kind of about the process more than it's about that final, how many wins you got? I'm going to tell you, I haven't thought 10 seconds about how many wins I've had in my career. So sometimes when I get asked about those kinds of things, I'm just kind of like, I don't feel like I ever won a game. I think we had a lot of good kids who won games and I got to go along for the ride. And Jim seems to be that kind of personality as well.
Craig Mattick:
Last one for you, Dawn. What was it about basketball, and specifically for girls, that kept you coaching for almost four decades?
Dawn Seiler:
I would have to say the relationships with those teams. I love to compete. It was a way for me to still compete because I love competition. So between the competition and those relationships, that's a lot of fun. And it's not a job when you're having fun, and that's how it was for me most of the time. I didn't have a job. I got to coach basketball and I felt pretty lucky that I got to coach basketball and I got lucky to coach with a lot of good people and I got lucky to coach a lot of good players. And that's how I feel every single day when I talk about basketball.
Craig Mattick:
In Play with Craig Mattick is made possible by Horton in Britton, where smiling at work happens all the time. Apply now at hortonww.com. If you like what you're hearing, please give us a five star review wherever you get your podcast. It helps us gain new listeners. This has been In Play with me, Craig Mattick. This is a production of South Dakota Public Broadcasting.
